Buddy Rich

[Tony T.]

I am a drummer in NYC/Westchester and have been performing for over 35 years. I know that there are many drummers out there that are awesome but dose anyone come close or compare to the way Buddy Rich played the drums, my answer is NO! what do you think.

[Peter Brightman]

Hello Tony
I have also been a drummer for around 35 years (where have the years gone to?) I agree with you - there is only one Buddy Rich. I knew Buddy well and like you and most of us, we were in awe of his playing. Having said this, Buddy wouldn't have wanted anyone to play like him. Buddy appreciated originality and individual style. As you say there are many awesome drummers out there - but (as we have discussed many times before in this forum) - where are the originals? You could put a record on the turntable thirty or more years ago and within a few bars know who was playing those drums. Gene, Buddy, Shelly, Louie, Zutty, Big Sid etc etc..... Today - you tell me?

[Tony T.]

I echo your words! I can tell you are a true lover of the greats in drumming.
I run am Orchestra in Westchester NY, please check my site out & I hope to meet you some day.
www.tonytorchestra.com

[Corey Cook]

I think I can find a better way of putting it. When we have on one side people who have gone through four years of Berklee, we get a product of, "play everything on the score, and have the technique that BERKLEE says to have." On the other hand, take someone like Buddy, and he made up his own technique without having people tell him. So there's obviously the element of, "Where did you learn to play that?" Well, B probably said, "Because they didn't tell me how." And so he created some new things. Dennis Chambers didn't study either. So yeah, I favor the natural players myself. Not to say that someone from school couldn't develop a personal style.

[Corey Cook]

But I do think that any drummer who has gone though a "school of drums" so to speak will have a certain element of genericism, unless he's been playing for a long enough time and has explored the instrument enough to add his own things on top of what he was taught.

People think that if you go to Berklee and can play everything that everyone else plays, you get more work. Teachers say that- and they're full of shit. "Play everything the other drummers can play." Well, play in multiple styles as necessary but don't worry about what everyone else is playing because everyone should be original. We got every studio record twenty five years ago with a Steve Gadd drum track on it and people copied Steve Gadd, and people copy. But, Miles Davis said, "Sometimes it takes a long time to play like yourself."

[Corey Cook]

The fact is that music school helps you get connections- but I never went to school and I've been fortunate enough to know a lot of Wynton Marsalis's bandmembers. So, it doesn't mean everything. You still have to find your way around AFTER music school is the fact. Join the union and make a lot of mistakes. Loose money, learn better how to spend it. Don't learn that from music school.

[Metropole]

Tony T,

I totally agree, no one comes close and probably no one ever will !. Corey Cooks comments are also right on. Buddy learned his stuff on the street and not in any classroom. He was a natural. I've been kicking my skins for over 40 years (ugh !) and the only training I ever took was learning the 26 rudiments which in all honesty hasn't really been applied very much (except during my gig with the Air Force Drum & Bugle corps for 14 months while in military service where you had to read). Most drumming can be reduced to maybe 4 or 5 rudiments. The rest are all variations. I don't discourage anyone from studying formally, but unless you develope a style of your own, you'll just be another sideman. What I mean is, does anyone know or care who the percussionist is for the NY or Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra's ?. They certainly are highly school trained but will probably spend their careers just reading a chart. That's fine for that genre, but Jazz requires much more originality.

What's most sad to me is that since Louie Bellson's passing, the last of the real drummers are now gone forever. As Peter points out, we have all agreed over and over that there are scores of awesome drummers out there, but no more Krupa, Rich's, or Bellson's. Why ?.

Metropole

[Tony T.]

Your comments are right on KEY! You really hit some high NOTES. The drumming from yester-year is gone because the drumming style has changed, big time. Where wrists & speed were the major factor in drum soloing, for the past 25 some odd years double bass pedals with hand foot coordination took over. As yoursef I have been drumming forever, born with drumsticks in my hand into a musical family where my dad (saxophone player) performed with Benny Goodman & Gene Krupa was a very big influence for me! We come from the OLD SCHOOL of drumming, like everything else, you can't stop progress. Today most drummers are influenced by the double pedal hand foot coordination style instead of wrist speed technique. But what does it all mean when you come down to it!!! We have what nobody can take away, the memories of the GREATEST DRUMMERS in the world. I'm going to be 52 years old this October and I am so proud that I play in a style that drummers can only dream about. With all of the double bass players of today, after I do my crazy drum soloing in the Buddy, Gene, Bellson style people always come up to me and same the same thing, how do you do that, my answer is, I was influenced by the best, and there will NEVER be any BETTER! EVER!!!!!!!
I live in New York, Westchester County, you can contact me so we could talk. I have 2 drum sets that Gene played on & 2 snare drums that Buddy play on with 12 vintage kits, mostly Slingerlands from the 40's & 50's. My dad was my mentor always talking about the old times in music, after his passing in 2004 at the age of 94 I continue his legacy and give drum clinics on the true art of drumming. You can check out my web site & contact me so we could talk, www.tonytorchestra.com
God Bless you, Tony T.

[Peter Brightman]

Tony I also play with wrist speed technique - traditional left hand grip and I often get asked how do I play like that, especially from younger drummers who play matched grip and mainly from the rock school. If you look at youtube there is a video clip of Buddy Rich explaining why he plays mainly with the traditional grip as opposed to the matched grip. Buddy of course, could play brilliantly with either grip, but he was right, the traditional grip gives you a different thinking about how to play the drums - hand position over the drums, quick movement between drums etc. But more than any of that, I suppose we were lucky enough to have experienced the wonder and joy of watching and listening to the jazz greats, who ultimately influenced us and affected our lives. This Berkeley and other superly trained drummers coming out of the music schools are truly marvels of technique and ablity to read and play just about anything and I wish them all the luck and success in the world - but somehow, the orginality has been lost, maybe for ever. The joy is in discovery and growth, if you know it all - where is there to go to? If you've never been taught maybe you never know what the parameters are and therefore you never stop developing and learning. Maybe, I should just go and listen to a Krupa or Buddy record and stop theorizing!